Discussion Seeking Input - Forming Communities

LaughingAxe

Well-Known Member
I have been discussing with my own dwindling circle of like-minded friends the idea of relocating and forming some sort of community operating out or close to outside of mainstream society. Most of us are in central to north AB and are seeing the writing on the wall with how things are degrading. Many of us also are witnessing our extended family in BC deal with their current issues so our conversation has amplified over the last few days. That being said id like to open up this thread with the intent of generating some ideas and feedback, possibly ones we have missed.

Because even though we agree on the problem and discuss how bad it could get, we still seem at a stand-still. It seems that all of us, and especially our wives, have different standards, goals, wants and needs. Dream homes, community sports, closeness to Costco to name a few. And even the people who I would have noted were the committed, seem to have a lot of sugar plum fairy delusions about things like zoning, subdivision, or just in general the reality of opting out of parts or the entirety of the system.

The more self-sufficient, the less leverage society can apply. If society seeks to apply unjust provisions then to me it makes sense to limit their impact and effect on me and my family. Of course it would make sense to dismantle unjust systems but im law abiding and would never suggest that nor seek to implicate others in foolishness (!) and i honestly, as someone who has experienced a limited glimpse into warzones and conflict, know that most people arent there yet.

Of course 100% self-sufficiency is not obtainable or even desirable to many. Having lived in a semi-remote area over the last two years, I have an understanding for the reality and the amount of work required. But still its a goal or journey of mine to get to the highest level of it.

Looking forward to hearing some thoughts of yours. Some questions:

-What needs would have to be satisfied for you to join a community?

-What wants?

-What are the dealbreakers?

-if money wasnt an issue, what would it look like? Amish with guns and no wooden buttons? Beards w mustaches? You get it
 
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evolenmity

Well-Known Member
This is my goal also. We need to separate from government and form our own community. There is only the bush to go into because the world has been conquered and explored already. I want 100% out of society and nothing to do with it. I do not want to pay taxes or take from govnmt even though I paid high taxes for it my whole life.
 
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LaughingAxe

Well-Known Member
It dawned on me a while ago that there truly is nowhere else to go. In the 1800s my ancestors came here with some other families. Now you can get some level of isolation but you are still connected. There is no frontier

I agree. Fuck taxes. Im actively looking for counties with the least taxes. Failing that, if 50 people went in together, then voted for 1 of them as council member, then thats part of the solution. I think my current divisions incumbent councillor got 70 votes and won. The give a fuck on local politics is really low so organized communities could dominate it easily
 

JuanTitor

The American
Around where I am in California, there is a large church (over 10,000) on the border of two cities, both in the 80,000-100,000 population range. The pastor always tells his church very strongly to vote, passes out things that basically tell them who to vote for, so that church essentially controls local elections for both cities. Thus the mayors, city council, and school board are all solid.

Obviously not many places have any single united community that big, but I still bet most cities in Alberta, even medium sized ones, have enough people to form some sort of united front for local elections outside the political parties. It would take someone clever to solidify some network, but I believe it can be done
 

❌❌❌SENTINEL❌❌❌

Gummy Bear Dealer
Don't let yourself be relegated to the bush. Make them accept a community as close to their cities as possible and as strategic for you as possible.

In the bush, there are no witnesses to whatever they feel necessary. Public opinion will always play a role in anything that comes our way.

They can only do so much before people look and think "I'm next".

Edit: The location you choose should allow for expansion from others who will eventually reach "I've had enough".
 
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LaughingAxe

Well-Known Member
Thats a real smart take.

Establish presence. Not just geographically but within the minds of the public. It is impossible to hide, or to avoid completely, therefore choose to present counter narrative.

That presence and closeness is in a way a protective layer.

And even though the goal could be to not be leveraged by the state, there still has to be a bridge from the old to the new. It could just be a very narrow, heavily guarded bridge
 
D

Deleted member 108

Hello, local asshole chiming in.

Most people cannot function without their fucking cell phones attached like a leash. As much as a break from society and rebuild sounds like a great idea. It would work for around two hours before people start escaping back to the cities to connect with a cell phone tower. Technology effectively ruined any chance of truly returning to nature since it is now a part of humanity.

Now I am sure "conservatives" are less addicted to phones as communists are. But we need to be honest that there is an addiction. And that won't be kicked cold turkey. Also yes, "they" know that as well.

So if people cannot function without a phone, how would they function in the bush? Yeah. Unpleasant truths hit the hardest.

You're welcome.
 
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The Conservationist

Save The West
Staff Member
Resistance Is Not Futile
I imagine many rural places would still have cell service, albeit, not as good of signal.
 
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LaughingAxe

Well-Known Member
Yea there is an addiction. You arent wrong that most people would be jonesing for their dopamine hit. I dont want most people though. And I, like others, will gladly take it, throw it on airplane mode and fucking toss it somewhere for several hours.

I also dont necessarily see forming community as a complete rejection of society. Id still use power, use things that bring advantage. Phones .. Sure. Just if someone was TikToking id cave their head in is all.
 

LaughingAxe

Well-Known Member
I didnt really know about SIP but I can see how it would be valuable.

My cell signal where im at is bad. I just use landline (VOIP) and then sattelite. Not a huge impact but i guess it could be for some folks. Something to think about anyway
 

Neutral_admin

Well-Known Member
@neoV265 I'm on freedom mobile. I live in a cell phone black hole. I mean phone calls work ok, most of the time, but data sucks, except for my wi-fi.

Moving to a rural area, I would have to curb my piracy, but I guess then I'll have to start stocking up on books. I would not like an internet free life, not at first, but like all things I've given up long term, after an initial ouch period, you miss it less and less.
 

RightOfSask

Ga$$light R Us
@Neutral_admin With companies investing in satellite internet, this will be a thing of the past very soon. I already know a couple of people who live out in the boondocks and got Starlink. And they get decent bandwidth.
 

Syrinx

Home To Tear The Temples Down
Invest in an actual ham radio and equipment if possible. Analog over digital relaying. I assume hamnet is like hamsphere

Also, CBs are still useful, even more so now that everyone forgot they existed. Whoever still knows how to jack em up, we're gunna need ya.
 

LaughingAxe

Well-Known Member
Great post....learning a lot about different ways to communicate.

Ive always been told to have primary, alternate, contingency and emergency forms of communication so grateful to learn more about other methods
 

evolenmity

Well-Known Member
The ones who are TRULY done with society have no attachments. You can take all I have, IDGAF. This is why I mock the ones who pretend they are anti vaxxx and anti mask but simultaneously wear masks at work and when they go shopping. These people are weak and won't take much more to make them comply. They use excuses like "well my kids like walmart". FUCKING EMBARASSING. Your excuses are your kids? No you're just weak. These people accept "covid testing" to keep their jobs. That is one step closer to the complete compliance which they will fall to. We don't want weak excuse makers in our community. They are the problem.
 

LaughingAxe

Well-Known Member
Ive ran into this as well.

A certain standard or intolerance needs to exist. If there was an opposing counter position or culture or society to government/media threats and propaganda then more people would disobey mandates. But there generally isn't one and people see themselves as individuals up agaisnt the 'all powerful' state.
 

51star

Well-Known Member
“You’re welcome”

You’re retarded is more like it

Pull your head out of your ass

Just because you’re a phone addict doesn’t mean the rest of us can’t go without our cell phones

“People have cell phones now, forget about going to the country ever again”

You aren’t “black pilled rage” you are a demoralizing faggot
 
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Peteisneat

tofuTV.ca
I agree to an extent. All you have to do is dissable your social media and wait. See how long it takes for people outside your immediate group to realize you ain't there anymore. (You'll be waiting a loooong time)
 

❌❌❌SENTINEL❌❌❌

Gummy Bear Dealer
The wheat and the chaff.

Those capable of disowning their phones without a second thought are those who will be capable of creating a self sufficient societies.

I give zero fucks about losing any of today's technology. It's all controlled by the fucks who brought this all down on all of us in the first place.

The answer for everyone else "come with me if you want to live."

The slave vs the Free.

As you say, there are many who will choose slavery. I'd rather not have a slave minded type living next to me anyway.
 
D

Deleted member 108

I've performed experiments in the past. Seeing who still uses Facebook, Twitter and the like. And the addiction is not going away.
 

Rusty Canuckleford

⭐️Keeper of truths⭐️
Staff Member
Saving this thread for later. I might want to start one for my area.
I don’t know enough about prepping yet so it’ll just be for community meetups
 

FreedomTruth

Coersion is not consent
Rural central to north AB is already one of the more based areas in Canada, with around 12-13% voting for PPC.

How detatched from society is it going to take? Ontario wants to implement a new Digital ID in October 2022. I don't think I want to participate in that, and it may be connected to the jabs. Will I no longer have a driver's license? What if all the banking institutions require jabs? What if I need it to buy food and gas?

I would literally need to be off grid. Fully self-sufficient. Food, electricity, water. In the long term I would have to make my own clothes. Butcher my meat and tan my leather. If anything broke I'd have to fix it myself.

But then, if I'm deemed a "public health threat" what does all that matter?

The point of a community would be to say "No, we are not enforcing those laws here." To collectively stand up to the bullies. To say clearly "the emperor has no clothes."

And if that fails, a community can support each other as we slide into a dystopian world that may leave the outsiders with 1800's tech and the rich enclaves with high tech full surveillance "you own nothing and are happy" slaves.
 

LaughingAxe

Well-Known Member
Im in one of those places and I am grateful for that. Run into a lot of good people but am concerned unless more effort to delineate perimeter and boundaries are made, those numbers will bleed.

I am basically of the same mind you are. Im thinking that a community would realistically need or have access to some vaccinated supporter who could interact and get supplies as needed. Im definitely not interested in digital all-in-one ID that will probably be connected to vaccine status.

The point of community to say no. To mean as I interpret that community is a rock, an assurance that your way is protected. I read that and thought of Waco, where the Emperor proved he did have clothes. Id argue our Emperor up here doesnt have clothes or any desire to get them. In my career ive seen it get more risk adverse not less. 'Stay safe' is a poor way of conducting war but its our operational mantra! Also Waco and others just tells me physical colocation is still a bad idea.

I think the future is between those two options. In that sense the idea is to be considered 'not worth the blood and treasure' by those who would seek to make us comply
 

Red-Pilled

A Pandemic of the Vaccinated
If you don't have internet and cell coverage I'm not joining..
images
 

Rustedmetal

Well-Known Member
I struggle to come up with reply to this post because there is not enough details to work with.

I moved out of the city few years ago into semi remote location not far from you and sure I would love to connect with like thinking people and exchange ideas and more.
Word of caution, rural people are least affected by current hysteria thus mostly oblivious to siguation and vulnerable. Best reaction you get from them is "those stupid politicians" as they are flipping channels.
Despite that to leave city is good idea as numerous unpleasantries are comming and in country you have bit more control of your destiny.
Starting with low expectations may pay rewards later. This type project usually start with enthusiasm then human characters ruin it.

Now I shoot from hip;
*How big community?
*What land and dwelling arrangements?
*Utilities?
*What criteria for selecting members?
*What kind governance and societal structure?
*What are expectations from members?
*What rights and protection given to individuals?
*Governance enforcement?
*Subject of property?
*Disputes solving?
*Schooling for kids?
*Religion?
*Health care?
*Transportation?
*Communal ownership?
*Food and staples?
*Rewards and punishments?

Thanks for innitiating this post
 

LaughingAxe

Well-Known Member
Ive noticed that with people around here. Very basic talking points. They aren't wrong but they are usually on the cusp of having a big revelation but then revert back. Same with their personal situation ... Lots of resources, ingenuity, hardwork but they dont go the one extra step to really be that much more free and less leveraged.

My own views on your questions would be:

*How big community?

Id probably want to start small then expand. 5 to 10 families to start and lay good foundation.

*What land and dwelling arrangements?

Ideally taking a quarter and subdividing by 4 or 5 parcels of 30 to 40 ac. Single dwelling homes and accessory buildings for families, privately owned but in proximity to like minded people. Possibly adding some sort of common area but at the end of the day private ownership is a huge deal for me.

*Utilities?

Most likely a mix of wood and propane heat. Drilled well. Power im not certain on ... Establishing connection is expensive and solar can be doable but intermittent. Septic is another ... Over 10 ac you can straight discharge and possibly avoid crazy expensive setup.

*What criteria for selecting members?

Mutual agreement and acceptance from remainder of people living there. Personally i would rather live in proximity to people w families or who are actively trying to start them. Then there is the political, moral values ... Ultimately the people have to be a cohesive and somewhat similar entity.

*What kind governance and societal structure?

Direct, transparent and republican. There has to be some sort of standard adhered to to manage the eventual abuse of authority or appeals to what is popular vs what is right. For structure id see it being an individual within a cohesive and identifiable group.

*What are expectations from members?

Assist when required/asked. Defend. Communicate. Really living life, working, but with an added protective layer. I would never consent to an arrangement where everything is shared and communal, or where ones labor is stolen. But I would help on my own free will for the benefit of all.

*What rights and protection given to individuals?

Speech, expression, arms. The only one I would be hesitant on is religious as certain religions can violate the cohesiveness factor.

*Governance enforcement?

By the people as decided by people and in accordance w whatever constitution or compact is agreed to. No dedicated police force more deputization / militia based.

*Subject of property?

Majority private. People need to have a stake.

*Disputes solving?

Contractual. Juries made up of people.

*Schooling for kids?

Home school unless theres a dedicated teacher but ultimately up to parents.

*Religion?

Im partial to ancestor worship but i also flip thru the KJV from time to time. Id be more inclined to have a disallowing of certain religions. So on one hand intolerant to most, on the other tolerant to a few or hybrid, natural beliefs.

*Health care?

Use mainstream health care as required. For minor stuff you can learn and get by

*Transportation?

Trucks and cars. Horses would be a nice backup.

*Communal ownership?

Only of a common area. I.e. the community wants to build a library or schoolhouse. It would probably have to happen via an incorporation or coop of which everyone was a member

*Food and staples?

Each family should spend time raising food. Stock, veg, fruit and nut trees/bushes and herbs. I wouldn't want to get into an overly huge industrial ag bit and would encourage more of a permaculture type set up. Lots of interesting methods w minimal inputs.

*Rewards and punishments?

Feasting over a fire and drinking, breathing clean air, and watching your kids grow up as free as possible.

Punishment ... Probably a paddlin or fine.
 
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51star

Well-Known Member
I have to disagree on the property parcel ownership. What you suggested is to take a piece of land with a tax burden of $80-to-a-couple-hundred and subdividing/improving (5+ acreages with SFHs) it into a total tax burden of probably $10,000+. The logical and rational solution is to investigate what the lowest possible tax burden is and do that. If "stake" is what concerns you, what if each family owned an amount of shares in a corporation that reflected their investment, and that corporation controlled the land asset?

I suspect the lowest tax burden is exactly what the hutterites do. Frankly if we get a few people together we should go speak to, and possibly hire, their lawyer.
 

Syrinx

Home To Tear The Temples Down
This. Once you start to parcel land, the taxes break the plan.



I would say a legal agreement would have to be written up that states those living in the community have co-ownership of the land. Then have a seperate legal agreement setting out boundaries of each plot within the bounds of the land.
 

51star

Well-Known Member
@Syrinx I am going to post below on why I don't think having plots is really a good idea all things considered. It's hanging on to to much of society and frankly if the municiple government shows up to a 1/4 section that is clearly just a bunch of plots of land they'll fuck us. Most of them have bylaws about not having more than 2 residences on a plot of land because they don't want people skipping out on property taxes. Not sure how hutterites etc get around it. Consultation required.
 

Syrinx

Home To Tear The Temples Down
I consider plots to be where you would have your home and have your smaller out buildings. More of a "this is the land x person uses, don't use it for a public area" or whatever. Something most of us want the most is to be left alone, which is a consideration of plots. Although I'll keep an open mind when reading your comment

Don't think within the game. Think outside of it.

Any non permanent(movable) structure, where I am at least, doesn't require permits or fuck all. Anything under a certain size doesn't require them either. Also, RV parks have been a thing for years, if the government wants to cry.

They've defined the game and left loopholes. Use those loopholes to change the definition of the game.

1/2
 
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Syrinx

Home To Tear The Temples Down
@51star 2/2

Alternatively, could always learn to do some clay kicking, as it were.

The amount of living space and storage you can have underground without being noticable above is astronomical. A great example of what you can do underground is Colin Furze, on YT.

180307-Z-A3538-0002 (1).jpeg
 

51star

Well-Known Member
@Syrinx If we all just put our homes on blocks and shuffle them around we will just end up in court.

I acknowledge that buying or incorporating an RV park specifically is a very tenable path, but do present that it puts us into commercial property tax. Ideal to stay in residential or agricultural property tax I think - or, as I've said... whatever the hutterites have, I'm sure is the ideal thing to have.
 

Syrinx

Home To Tear The Temples Down
You don't need to shuffle them around at all. Literially just being on wheels or a mobile home sitting in one spot counts as a non permanent structure.

It would never be an issue in court as its within their rules, this wouldn't be the outskirts of a city, this would be the '2 hours from Costco' or more. I'm talking rural enough that the RCMP might drive in the area once a month.

As far as the RV park, it wasn't so much a suggestion to create an RV park, but to exploit the system for our own gain based on the laws that allow RV parks to exist.

Basically you're not breaking any laws until someone gets nosey, doesn't like what you're doing and tries to create new laws. But once you're that rural, noone actually cares.

Edit: The issue of year round occupancy legality isn't exactly hard to loophole either, as it would be tied to a building, not the land.

Ever hear of people with a winter and a summer "house", that's really two cottages? Thats why. Lol

I've been researching for awhile lol
 
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Rustedmetal

Well-Known Member
@laughinaxe
Yesterday at 11:57 PM

Thanks for your well thought-out reply.
It seems you did dilligently think about it before. I had a friend who recently passed away and we had similar plan. With his departure plans shattered.
 

51star

Well-Known Member
dude you can’t stack dozens of mobile homes on a lot without changing the zoning to a mobile home park. The provincial govt and municipality will freak out about septic and water. CPS will come take your kids if you can’t prove their shit goes into septic and they won’t permit your septic for what you’re suggesting.

Could it work, yeah. But you are at the mercy of your closest neighbor and their willingness to complain, and if we are literally going to be a group of hated people we need to plan for that.

You may be able to get away with bunkies under 102 sq ft each on skids. Full trailers? Like I said even most rural municipalities don’t want you stacking them on Ag zoned lots and that leaves you at the mercy of municipal government.

Otherwise what you’re looking for is land with no zoning or building restrictions. I am on board for that but it is usually few and far between to find those spots. I know of one and it isn’t rural it’s a shithole on the highway.
 

LaughingAxe

Well-Known Member
All really interesting points...

I might consider being flexible so long as there were written assurances. An incorporation where you have stock, and bylaws / annexes that lay out what is what and what belongs to who.

But there is risk and it needs to be iron clad. What of liability or insurance? And what if this new incorporation becomes overbearing and intrusive in my own life? I wouldn't be so sure to add another layer to potentially oppress in addition to the excess of govenrment. And what of inheritance .. Maybe my kids get shares but do those shares translate to house and land? More questions than answers

In terms of houses im of the mind i could easily live in a modest house so long as there were external storage areas or comminal workshops
 

Red-Pilled

A Pandemic of the Vaccinated
The important thing for this to work is to have people with lots of different skillsets - you're going to need a baker, people with knowledge & skill in animal husbandry , people with knowledge & skill in growing vegetables & grains, 'blacksmiths', metal workers, carpenters. mechanics, a Doctor etc, etc, etc
 

Rustedmetal

Well-Known Member
I dont't think communal skillsets need to be very broad. Say gardenning, mechanic, medic is essential but grain grover perhaps not because grains can be bartered for perhaps mechanics work.
 
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LaughingAxe

Well-Known Member
"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects."

Robert A. Heinlein
 

LaughingAxe

Well-Known Member
I know. The challenge is finding and then making more of them. Most people in cities know how to mash buttons
 

Syrinx

Home To Tear The Temples Down
My friends laughed at me when I wanted to create a village years ago.

They're now messaging me a lot more asking what phase that plan is now in.


Stop thinking in terms of "useful people", this isn't a years planned exodus of hand picked people. We're going to have to work with who our allies are.

Most people don't know how to do shit anymore, so the best thing you can do right off is start amassing educational information on the skills we will require.

There are only a small number of us who have the skills our forefathers did, and we're going to have to educate the people who dont.
 
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LaughingAxe

Well-Known Member
Even in my circle of friends I look at, and even in myself, I realize the more I know the more I dont know. Like you said theres a huge deficiency of knowledge and a steep learning curve within a potentially unforgiving environment. Its for this reason I have a large physical library of how to do shit I Havent even thought of yet!

What phase are you in?
 

51star

Well-Known Member
I hate to break it to you but if dream homes and closeness to Costco are coming up, and if the wives are contributing majorly to that discussion, those folks probably don't get it. To answer those questions, forget "dream homes" and focus on "heatable shelter" and as for closeness to Costco, you want to be at least 2 hours away from stuff like that but you do need to access it so you plan for every couple months, combine it with some kind of errand like getting tractor parts or making a trade, and take a representative from a few families with a large vehicle and with a freezer running off an inverter. Perhaps you're doing at while bringing something to market, either for you or for a local farmer. It's a combination of common sense and what the mennonites/northern communities/etc do. Eventually you move on from Costco completely and are just taking a cargo trailer to the distributor. Places like Sysco have a minium spend of about $500. Very doable. At some point perhaps you meet the minimum for the truck to come to you?

I have been trying to identify some people who want to go all in on a community since before Covid but I lack the social or internet skills. I don't like the modern/buy chinese crap way of life and would like to isolate and become self sufficient as much as possible - while enjoying conveniences while they exist (going to the city to get improvement materials and supplies we may have to one day do without). The most important thing for me - a thrifty person - is being with likeminded people whose top priority is saving money (and converting that money into lasting assets for our community). To me this is the right thing to do regardless of whether or not the vax/unvax thing comes to a conclusion or not (which I think it will by spring or next year when people realize boosters/waning immunity, at which point we will just be "those people who never have to worry about whether they got fucked by mRNA or not").

The above poster mentioned the idea of getting a 1/4 section and subdividing it. I have considered this as there is some economy to the idea - I've asked myself why even 80 families/people couldn't divvy up a 1/4 section into 1.5 acres each with a 40 acre reserve for a really reasonable amount of money - $10-15,000 each would allow for land purchase and some common improvements like a well and water tower. The problem with this is that with each subdivision and building erection we raise the property tax burden, and the property tax is arbitrarily manipulable by the municipal government.

There are two viable paths I would consider pursuing. Not too interested I arguing or aligning with people who don't "get" this but open to discussion with anyone who thinks one of these two solutions is viable:



1) Search municipalities and find one that is weighted evenly by priority as follows: Small. Conservative. Low property prices/high vacancy rate (usually go hand in hand). Whichever town in that municipality (the ones meeting that definition usually only have 1-2 towns) has the highest vacancy rate, people move there and around there until we control local government. That will put us in control of bylaws, which local health dept. we align with (or create our own), property tax, and which local police force we align with. Once we control municipal gov't we should be able to dismiss RCMP and provincial health authority and sub in our own sheriff department and health center. If any of us are employed we could possibly even hire a doctor, dentist and a surgeon.

Even if we don't succeed in getting enough numbers to control local government, we create a hospitable atmosphere near likeminded people and create a 'bargaining unit' to continue our access to services. A couple cults have attempted this and almost been successful, but the problem is they are always hippies going into a conservative area. If conservatives go into a conservative area to make it more conservative... we might have something there.

2) Consult with the amish, hutterites, etc and copy their system. They clearly have figured out a zoning system by which they can live together on agricultural land more than 2 families to a plot which is the usual bylaw. We need to copy that exactly but instead of commercial agriculture monocrops do permaculture and diversified homestead production. Piece of land would have to have a good running creek or stream, not a seasonal trickle, and ponds/a lake/good water table and soil. I totally disagree about having individual plots. We need to combine labour for gardens and livestock like literally every other successful community-society.

The idea of having a bunch of single family ("dream") homes is impractical for emergency survival and not cost efficient for this situation we are facing where many people have changing employment, not to mention the reduction in income from all relocating together. If we build from scratch we need to build in a way where we are thinking "hey, if we start to have to heat from firewood only every year, is this sustainable? Enough forest? Enough manpower? Enough axes? Enough whetstones? Enough storesheds? For 5-20+ families to heat their own domicile 20 acres apart?" I think not. There's a reason the people of this land either lived in tiny huts or communal longhouses. I've pondered this and here is the best I can come up with: A giant community social hall/barracks/lodge with a good giant fireplace that doubles as a communal home for the coldest months and days. Smaller cabins/wheeled wagons/tents/summer homes across the property to get some privacy the rest of the year. It would create a cool kind of cyclical year whereby the community would grow very closeknit by living together and sharing during the toughest times, but then we could have great summers working together but having privacy in our own spaces when the threat of nature is lower. The actual design of the lodge I think would be a great room with a fireplace and a relatively low ceiling to keep in heat, and a bunch of family bedrooms off of that room. Possibly the kids sleep in the great room on wall bunks like at summer camp and the parents sleep in the family bedrooms, and during the day the family bedroom is the family private space? But frankly we need to almost always eat together, and during the winter we need to heat together, if we are serious about off grid survival and thriving.

If we all go Laura Inglis on our own but in close proximity, we are just going to be meeting every couple days to figure out who has died of dysentery...
 
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Syrinx

Home To Tear The Temples Down
#1 seems fairly doable. Local cops hire locally, same with FD, etc etc.

We could indeed collectively buy a town.
 
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51star

Well-Known Member
If we start buying up residential lots in a town the key is to also buy all of the agricultural lots in that municipality. Then start developing them; immediately around the town leave a 1 1/4 section gap for firewall the development, then do a permaculture ring with a living permiter fence. Keep livestock roaming free within that fence. Outside that permaculture ring but inside municiple boundaries we can do the monocrops a society needs like cotton and maybe wheat but we should probaly focus mostly on meat, eggs, and vegetables. It's a gargantuan proposal, would require more than a thousand people relocating probably.

It doesn't do us any good if we vote ourselves free to walk around town maskless but Monsanto owns all the farmland in the municipality.
 

Syrinx

Home To Tear The Temples Down
We'd need to have all the criteria you've set out, but could cut down the amount of people needed to start moving toward that by trying to find areas that have very large parcels. I've seen parcels larger than the town they're in.

Farms, well if we have picked the correct area, I'm sure some farmers would agree to sell to us if that time arose instead of a corporation, if they're principled. We may even have the local farmers on our side already.
 

FreedomTruth

Coersion is not consent
I agree with setting up a new municipality or taking over one. There are still unorganized townships in northern Ontario, I believe.
 

LaughingAxe

Well-Known Member
Interesting reply .. Going to reference it later

One big item I notice is what makes sense and is efficient vs what is preferred.

I will tell you right now that of all the women (wives of friends) i know most if not all of them would not be ok with communal living, shared eating, kids in one room etc. Most of them want their own space. And until we Arnie Schwarzenegger Junior it up, or are willing to revert back to patriarchal ways, kind of need those ladies and the kids

And as someone who has lived in barracks shacks and all sorts of unconfortable cramped spaces there is a limit to patience.

Not sure why ya think living in personal house would mean meeting every couple days to find out who died of dysentry. If you jam a lot of people together in suboptimal conditions you are going to have casualties from disease, hygiene etc.

Buying a town and having deliveres come to you seems pretty sweet though
 
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51star

Well-Known Member
For the exact single reason I stated, tell me how you’re going to heat a SFH for every 3-6 people with only wood.

I have done the research on thermal mass per cord per kind of wood, what kind of tree goes where, how many cords per acre, and how much land costs per acre.

It doesn’t work. This isn’t 1800. People switched to fuel because when every person around is scavenging wood to heat, wood becomes a hot commodity.

“Durr it grows in the woods”

Okay, say you can’t fuel you atv or truck. Say the horses died last winter. Do you know how much wood you need to move to prepare for winter? It’s a lot. And you have created competition with the very people you want to ask for help because they are also trying to heat their home with scarce wood. Oh and by this point we can assume you can’t fuel your chainsaw do this is happening with an axe you sharpen on a whetstone...

In history as often as you find people eating dirt you’ll find people burning their furniture. If you’re telling me we are all going to magically grow our own food and maintain our own timber farms on 20 acres each, and have a clearing enough for a house, on cheap land... well sorry I am in for reality.

A quarter section is a 1/4 section because it supports a family. If you want to divide that up X ways we need to discuss how you have improved efficiency of homesteading or else we need to be somewhat communal.

As for ‘the women don’t like it’ okay then, shoot your shot with whatever the mrs will allow. But your plan is one fire burning for 5 months straight on the labour of your adult male back only... rough gig, hope you have work age kids. This idea is a Norman Rockwell painting, actual survivalism is going to look like the dire periods of the Walking Dead without the zombies.
 
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LaughingAxe

Well-Known Member
@51star

You can heat homes with wood. Its basically how we got here...

Nowhere in any of my comments did I say I would utilize just wood (see above)

If you add passive solar, thermal mass, design and secondary systems (propane) then its fairly simple. Even without secondary systems you can make something fairly comfortable with wood stoves or rocket mass heater applications so long as you arent trying to heat a massive house. Small, well sited well insulated. You can dig a pit house if you truly want to be warm.

On my property I cut a few trees down, with a single bit axe and a wedge. In their place, about 8 others sucker up and are about 3 ft high now. I live on 10 ac now and there is an abundance of trees and fuel. You should understand also that im able to walk to areas outside of those 10 ac and collect. 160 ac ÷ 4/5 = 40/32 ac per. You could potentially have an enormous amount of trees.... Hell the amount of deadfall alone.

Theres nothing stopping people from working together to chop wood. I usually use an axe but when i use a chainsaw I like having someone else nearby to communicate or help directionally fell. If gas and power went tomorrow you would have people working together for this purpose ... Id go walk 300m to my neighbor and see if he wanted to go get some wood.

You can gain heat by having people huddled in one space. But you also gain disease and resentment.

Last ... The Mrs and I are a united front. She gave me kids. They dont do communal. She agreed to relocate out of the city because I made sure it would be somewhat comfortable and safe. Most other women, realistically, would only accept communal living arrangement if they are hippies, born into it or absolutely desperate (which they arent)

Is your wife different? You comfortable with your kids sleeping in a great room while other adults you maybe know maybe dont, are nearby?
 

51star

Well-Known Member
>wood stuff

Look, I lack the literal experience to combat your 8 tree supply but I have read what homesteaders say and contrasted it to the land that is affordable and seen a problem. I’d be happy to be proven wrong.

>You comfortable with your kids sleeping in a great room while other adults you maybe know maybe dont, are nearby?

Did you not go to camp as a child? A dorm full of kids surrounded by all their parents strikes you as the danger zone? You plan to start this community with strangers?

Look I’m not even remotely interested in arguing with this stuff. If your idea of building a community is saving a few grand once by subdividing an acreage okay. That already exists, and as soon as two people sell to ‘whoever has money’ to move for work you’re back to a standard neighborhood.
 

LaughingAxe

Well-Known Member
Yep. I got a supply of 8 trees. Thats what I said hurr durr wood and all.

The very first item in this thread was discussing how friends i would like to start a community with are either delusional or still stuck in a mindset, so yes I would consider strangers. What we wouldnt consider, is occupying close proximity with people we dont know. Understand that in communal arrangements, kids can and do get abused. Im not interested in risking it. One allegation or suspicion in that environment and trust is gone.

If you dont wish to argue, then dont. You have a lot of intetesting ideas ... The SYSCO idea, permaculture ring/living fence. Discussing with you I realize there are also more pros and cons to consider. You arent wrong that communal, low roof is warmer and more efficient ... Ive camped and ive lived in tents with 8 other people and its toasty. Everyone has a function. Clothes get dried, water warmed, food prepared.

Correct on the reality of how to physically survive, but our current reality needs to be heavily acquiesced to ... At least in the opening phases
 

Cucknadian

Well-Known Member
Proximity to big box stores and whatnot isn't a concern. It just requires a change in shopping habits. Instead of popping into Costco on the way home from work, you just plan to make a larger shopping trip every 2 weeks or whatever. It requires planning instead of impulsive buying. Most Canadians are impulsive, low IQ retards, so the swap seems more daunting than it really is. Modern living promotes impulsive behavior, and many don't realize they've been conditioned.

The average normie wants their entire life's needs to be accessible in a few square blocks with some travel opportunities in between. That's how modern urban living is set up.
 
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LaughingAxe

Well-Known Member
It is a concern for some. It just needs to be replaced with a proposition that says 'never push a grocery cart again. Never wait in line again'.

Id contract it out or get a couple folks to drive a cube van every couple weeks to do resupply for all
 

ChevChelios

Adorably Deplorable
I think anyone who is still thinking about Costco or cellphones is forgetting that these things are not going to exist in a Great Reset/Agenda 2030 future, or at least not in anything like their current form -- big-box stores will wither and die thanks to supply-chain failures, hyperinflation, attrition of workers due to sickness, and the gradual abolition of property rights; cellphones will become unusable as both voice and text communications are increasingly monitored and censored, and the internet itself will be almost entirely made up of websites parroting globohomo propaganda.

There are only two choices facing us, and both are far from ideal: retreat to a rural area and live a very basic type of existence at a far remove from society, and hope that totalitarianism will eventually collapse under the weight of its own contradictions; or fight back and possibly die trying. But the way of life we have always known -- that of comfort and cleanliness and consumerism -- is very soon not going to be an option for most of us until the Leviathan is finally defeated
 
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Cucknadian

Well-Known Member
I prefer retreating to the rural way of life. I viewed modern, urban and suburban consumerist living as ridiculous long before covid. It will collapse eventually anyways as there simply aren't enough resources on Earth to sustain western consumerist living in perpetuity. If we were to fight to "reclaim" Canada, what would we really be fighting for? A dying way of life that really, actually deserves to die.

I'd prefer to exist in a parallel society with less creature comforts than fight to perpetuate a degenerate one doomed to eventually fail.
 

Red-Pilled

A Pandemic of the Vaccinated
@ChevChelios "There are only two choices facing us, and both are far from ideal: retreat to a rural area and live a very basic type of existence at a far remove from society, and hope that totalitarianism will eventually collapse under the weight of its own contradictions; or fight back and possibly die trying."

There is only one option in the Great reset scenario - retreat to a sufficiently remote area, that it's not worth their trouble. Unless a serious amount of Canada's military (and it's leaders) are against such a new power system you won't stand a chance fighting, it would be a massacre.
 
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Syrinx

Home To Tear The Temples Down
@neoV265 Notice how those guys are called technicians now? They're not even mechanics anymore, they can only fix specific machines from a specific time frame.

Sandpaper and a knife is all you need. Same with a corroded distributor cap.
You can set the gap with a $3 thickness gauge if you don't wanna eyeball it.

I hate people who spend tons on snap on and mac. Hand tools, I use mastercraft bought new or used online or at yard sales. Its cheap af and has the same if not technically a better warranty than the tool truck brands. If it breaks? I go to crappy tire and have a brand new one handed to me, no receipt, no arguing, no pain.

The argument of "well you'll have down time if it breaks"? No I won't. What asshole only keeps one of each socket, wrench, etc in hand? Oh right. Someone who has to pay $60 a wrench instead of $20 for an entire set on sale.

My fuckin tool box is a series of stackable fish trays for fuck sake.
 

Rustedmetal

Well-Known Member
In great reset scenario it also might happen that people have nothing to loose and have no hope, that's dangerous to establishment
 

RightOfSask

Ga$$light R Us
@neoV265
there are no minimum wage standards for farm work
There absolutely are minimum wage standards for farm work. And during harvest, you will find that farms pay even more than minimum wage.



Unless you let your kids "work" for you.
 
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RightOfSask

Ga$$light R Us
Most agricultural and farm type workers do not have the same rights to minimum hours of work and wages as other workers in Ontario.
They kinda do, because everytime you have exceptions for minimum wage standards you also have this footnote:

You are generally entitled to minimum wage. However, your employer can pay you less than minimum wage if:

you are paid on a piece work basis and the rate is high enough that you could earn at least minimum wage with reasonable effort, or
your employer gives you room and board and your employer deducts the costs from your pay (your employer cannot deduct more than the maximum amounts set out in O. Reg. 285/01)


Source:

I don't know a single farm worker which makes less than minimum wage, even those guest workers from Mexico. I work in this industry.
 

RightOfSask

Ga$$light R Us
@neoV265 Or maybe you turn around, say "fuck you" to the government and become the best version of you for you. And on the day this happens you will have something worth to die for.
The farming industry is FULL of protection from government in Ontario.
Of course it is. Like almost any industry politicians can virtue signal about.
And please tell me why ANY farmer would still be using Monsanto products in the day and age of socalled knowledge.
Because they have good products that make farmers money. And money speaks louder than morals no one cares about. People don't care if the bread they pick up at Costco is made with Monsanto products or not. Why should the farmer care?
 
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Syrinx

Home To Tear The Temples Down
I wasn't trying to pick apart what you said or anything, I apologize. It was just a random ass fact Ive known for ages and this is the first time its been useful. Haha.
 

LaughingAxe

Well-Known Member
Option to lesve or fight but there is also option to leave in order to be able to fight. As in, create the foundation and production / logistical capabilities to support future operations. And in the event us or the US ends up balkanizing that would be a huge advantage to already have it all set up
 

RoboticMedia

Well-Known Member
I'm in my early 30s in suburbia and have pets,elderly parents, live a few minutes walk from milk and eggs kind of groceries and 5-15 minutes drive away gets major grocery chains, access to a lot of parks a walk/ bike ride away
I think I'm ready in a community as is in that way :)




-What are the dealbreakers?
Elderly parents, small pets

-if money wasnt an issue, what would it look like?
Similar to my current lifestyle, neighbors make jam from our fruit trees as is but more of a food community could be nice.
Also wifi (I'm on my phone so much) , can answer calls from work's voip system if im out of the office.
Maybe I'd even have a kid and a husband lol.
 
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❌❌❌SENTINEL❌❌❌

Gummy Bear Dealer
" -What are the dealbreakers?
Elderly parents, small pets "

There are no deal breakers IF they are willing to come.

We are NOT them.

The weaker create the inner society while the stronger create the rest.

The elderly have wisdom and experience to offer. If they are to far gone, we offer them a place to pass in dignity.

Again, we are NOT them.
 

Rustedmetal

Well-Known Member
@RoboticMedia
What you are describing for your neighbourhood sounds idillic but I think it will vanish soon.
I think your settings are not ideal unless you have other members of your family (purposly i didnt mention friends) to support you and protect you.
Part of their culling process is to provoke population into inner hostilities as evidence suggests.
To find a solid husband now would be easy as these difficult times unveil people's characters, to bring a child into current invironment is a major commitment and risk.
God help us.
Best of luck.
 

99%SurvivalRate

Well-Known Member
It's nice to see a woman down with this idea, but my piece of advice for you is to mentally prepare to live in a world without wifi/internet. It will change everything, and it likely won't be an option for you in the future if you do not submit to the digital ID/Vaxpass. All this talk about identity verification online, identity theft, cyber warfare, etc. is the problem to their solution of having to get vaccinated/chipped/tattooed to get on the internet.

This is coming from someone who lives rurally and works remotely. It would be devastating for me.
 

❌❌❌SENTINEL❌❌❌

Gummy Bear Dealer
I have been discussing with my own dwindling circle of like-minded friends the idea of relocating and forming some sort of community operating out or close to outside of mainstream society. Most of us are in central to north AB and are seeing the writing on the wall with how things are degrading. Many of us also are witnessing our extended family in BC deal with their current issues so our conversation has amplified over the last few days. That being said id like to open up this thread with the intent of generating some ideas and feedback, possibly ones we have missed.

Because even though we agree on the problem and discuss how bad it could get, we still seem at a stand-still. It seems that all of us, and especially our wives, have different standards, goals, wants and needs. Dream homes, community sports, closeness to Costco to name a few. And even the people who I would have noted were the committed, seem to have a lot of sugar plum fairy delusions about things like zoning, subdivision, or just in general the reality of opting out of parts or the entirety of the system.

The more self-sufficient, the less leverage society can apply. If society seeks to apply unjust provisions then to me it makes sense to limit their impact and effect on me and my family. Of course it would make sense to dismantle unjust systems but im law abiding and would never suggest that nor seek to implicate others in foolishness (!) and i honestly, as someone who has experienced a limited glimpse into warzones and conflict, know that most people arent there yet.

Of course 100% self-sufficiency is not obtainable or even desirable to many. Having lived in a semi-remote area over the last two years, I have an understanding for the reality and the amount of work required. But still its a goal or journey of mine to get to the highest level of it.

Looking forward to hearing some thoughts of yours. Some questions:

-What needs would have to be satisfied for you to join a community?

-What wants?

-What are the dealbreakers?

-if money wasnt an issue, what would it look like? Amish with guns and no wooden buttons? Beards w mustaches? You get it
LaughingAxe
Whatever plan you go with, DO NOT leave with your tale between your legs.

Leave kicking & screaming and cede as a little ground as possible and regroup.

There is no reason to believe they will leave us to our utopia unmolested.
 

99%SurvivalRate

Well-Known Member
If I last, I would want to be apart of something parallel absolutely. The difficult thing with all of this, is just how suddenly and unexpectedly this all came upon us. Many of us knew something was off long before March 2020 and were taking steps to regain lost knowledge and become more self-sufficient, but when you have such a long period of peace, people get weak, lazy and forget the old ways. Hell, at that time I was still living in downtown Calgary. I've been out in the wild for a year now, and have learned much about how to work with tools, how to garden, etc, but there's so much to catch up on.

Even if my mind is in the right place and I have the resolve to do this, the amount of skills I lack is unsurmountable, and I don't think I would be of value to any community. I envy those of you who knew this was coming and have practical skills.
 

LaughingAxe

Well-Known Member
2 years ago I lived in the city. Im in same position and everyday im learning

You will last. This is a journey. I hope to still be learning new things when im an old man. You are absolutely of value if you seek to bring value and strive to be valuable.

Id rather work with someone in your position than someone who feels they know it all. You can teach skills but its harder to teach genuine eagerness and motivation
 

Rustedmetal

Well-Known Member
@99%SurvivalRate
It is good you recognize lack of your skills, better yet you posess willingness to learn.
I ended up in bush after living in calgary practicing professional job, blessing in disguise.
Over few years I learnt few things from gardening to herbalism, from carpentry to diesel mechanic even exorcism.
Tried to rely on YT vids to learn and it helped but not so much.
Hands on with a mentor is fastest.
 

Rustedmetal

Well-Known Member
Has enybody considered TeePee or yourt ?
There are no building provisions for either.
Years back i was in situation when I was strongly considering it. Friend whom I lost contact with lived in yourt near Rocky Montain House year round.

 
Yeah they generally qualify as "non permanent structures" so there is a lot of leeway there if you can get away with it. They aren't particularly difficult to heat either if constructed well.

One thing you do have to watch out for is "minimum livable space." If it's below X square footage you can end up with serious issues. A frustrating and unexpected issue we ran into wanting to go the "tiny house" route in Ontario.

 
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There are two private islands here that are both hunting reserves. One of them is a membership only hunting club with purchased stakes. Owning a stake is essentially partial ownership of the whole island.

They have a 365 employed private chef on the island, and I would assume some groundskeepers, maybe not actually living there like the chef. They have a main lodge and a number of outbuildings for use by members at any time of year.

I agree that "communal ownership" is a bad idea, but a split stake like that would be something else. Then you just have a charter that outlines "ownership" into assigned lots.

The other island is for sale, seems it was single ownership but also has a number of separate buildings so the prior owner must have had something similar going on.

If they can do it with hunting reserves/lodges, there's no reason we couldn't do the same thing.
 

NewDiagolonian

Well-Known Member
Private spots so people have 'mine' and public spaces as 'ours' makes it easier for humans.
 
View previous replies…

LaughingAxe

Well-Known Member
I like the idea of a charter that then outlines what is what and who it belongs to. The thing that bugs me with communal is the potential for abuse of authority and redistribution to what group exercises the most control in community

And in a way, even though I own right now there are a number of ways the gov can come in and make it so I only 'own' it.

Will look into the hunting reserve angle. Thanks
 
@LaughingAxe I agree with your concerns. Two thoughts here:

Just make each stake holder a "board member" with equal votes.

On that note: I remember a privacy article about how a man made himself undoxable by basically running his entire personal life under one ore more LLC shell companies. He slowly transferred everything out of his personal name until there was no way to trace him.

Makes me wonder if a small privately owned LLC could get away with a township. We all purchase an equal share in the company, and then pay "rent" that covers the public fund for taxes, road maintenance, etc.

There are a handful of privately owned townships in the US, I don't know of any examples in Canada though. This could be similar to the angle the hunting lodges use, idk.
 

LaughingAxe

Well-Known Member
I believe having member shares could work and from that membership an election of a board. I looked at how Hutterites are structured in AB Companies Act and the majority are Non Profit Private Company. Private companies can have 50 members although the actual definition of member might be flexible.

Bylaws or charters could limit or empower board. You could do anything from term limits to frequency/location of meetings. Evicting would be a large consideration to mull over and process woukd have to be above board and transparent. On one hand you want to be able to deal with cousin Ernie emptying his shitter into the street and on the other you want to be able to exist not fearing you just offended someones pronouns. Common sense, I hope, would be common!

What that guy did sounds awesome. I admit since starting this thread im more curious about some sort of body to organize it all. Some more benefits ... Anything from company vehicles w group insurance to just lower taxes as north51 was saying.

The initial investment or any other rent, or even the profits of business that fall under the umbrella of that corporation, can then be directed at more land acquisition, expansion etc.

I dont know if we do the same as the US companies. I know we do temp camps. And for the military at least the trend for us has been to divest from military housing and incentivize guys with money to live on economy. My understanding is it is too much expense for maintenance. Probably similar for most for-profit companies who dont want the extra expense.
 

NewDiagolonian

Well-Known Member
I have been discussing with my own dwindling circle of like-minded friends the idea of relocating and forming some sort of community operating out or close to outside of mainstream society. Most of us are in central to north AB and are seeing the writing on the wall with how things are degrading. Many of us also are witnessing our extended family in BC deal with their current issues so our conversation has amplified over the last few days. That being said id like to open up this thread with the intent of generating some ideas and feedback, possibly ones we have missed.

Because even though we agree on the problem and discuss how bad it could get, we still seem at a stand-still. It seems that all of us, and especially our wives, have different standards, goals, wants and needs. Dream homes, community sports, closeness to Costco to name a few. And even the people who I would have noted were the committed, seem to have a lot of sugar plum fairy delusions about things like zoning, subdivision, or just in general the reality of opting out of parts or the entirety of the system.

The more self-sufficient, the less leverage society can apply. If society seeks to apply unjust provisions then to me it makes sense to limit their impact and effect on me and my family. Of course it would make sense to dismantle unjust systems but im law abiding and would never suggest that nor seek to implicate others in foolishness (!) and i honestly, as someone who has experienced a limited glimpse into warzones and conflict, know that most people arent there yet.

Of course 100% self-sufficiency is not obtainable or even desirable to many. Having lived in a semi-remote area over the last two years, I have an understanding for the reality and the amount of work required. But still its a goal or journey of mine to get to the highest level of it.

Looking forward to hearing some thoughts of yours. Some questions:

-What needs would have to be satisfied for you to join a community?

-What wants?

-What are the dealbreakers?

-if money wasnt an issue, what would it look like? Amish with guns and no wooden buttons? Beards w mustaches? You get it
LaughingAxeTried to do small town. Expensive.
 

Rustedmetal

Well-Known Member
Is anybody using coal to heat?
In alberta they are closing coal mines in last couple of decades and coal is superior to any fire wood. They just stopped coal sales at Atco powerstation by Forestbug. Only one I know about is Dod 's mine near Raley.
Any thougts?
PS: prices in recent years increased from bit above $10 to $120 per ton with carb tax. Sanity?
 
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